Y’know, as a 14-year USAF Vet (DV) and the proud son of a retired USAF Msgt, I think people are being WAAAY to selective in what they want to hear. There was a heck of a ruckus back in the ’60s when legends such as Raquel Welch ‘wore’ the flag (and yes, it touched the ground), but despite the arguably less-permissive environment then, Welch got one heck of a lot less vitriol than Manhart has. (Some disclosure here: I was also a journalist after I left the AF… More disclosure: besides being a journalist *post-service* and a USAF Staff Sergeant – as was Manhart- and I went to college to become a journalist, so I got to see ALL sides of this kind of an argument.)
During my service (1977-1990), if anyone had done what Manhart had while serving as an MTI, I’d have been both shocked and mystified…that she’d do something to potentially discredit and lessen the value of the MTI and what they do for new Airmen – or Instructors for other branches of the military, for that matter. It still isn’t ‘conducive to good military order and discipline’. Not ever; but THAT’s only in the context that she was part of a special cadre within the military: the first exposure to the ‘military life’ and one of those entrusted to train and imbue their charges with what it takes to honorably and effectively serve this Country. If I’d been her commander, maybe I’d have gone with taking her out of the MTI cadre and returning her to her former duties, with a Letter of Counseling in her personnel file that would likely have torpedoed her career from that point anyhow; I don’t believe I’d have professionally disemboweled her. But I’m getting off-topic.
The point is, she paid WAY more than the price she should’ve for her lack of judgement regarding posing in Playboy. After that, she chose to honor her service by wearing the flag in a literal fashion. I see no difference in that and the ‘Stars & Stripes’ clothing sold and worn all over…it STILL depicts the Flag of Our Nation. She dishonored her job and possibly her branch of service, but in comparison with what’s going on now, that’s not worth the ink it takes to write about it. (Or the electrons…) Michelle Manhart did NOT desecrate our national flag. She attempted to treat it with a different respect than many others, but no worse than most do. So how does her trying to prevent our flag from being literally trod on (etc, etc, ad nauseum) by some agents provocateurs who just want to piss people off by desecrating the flag?
Their message could’ve been made louder, clearer and in other ways not offensive in the least. They instead chose to stoop to the level of the idiotic, thoughtless, callous and disrespectful that have ramped up emotions needlessly in Missouri, California, and all across the U.S. Hell, even the people who are peacefully protesting in those places will tell you that there are provocateurs in their midst doing their best to enflame the situation. But why? Because they’re immature and want to piss people off? Because they want to fight?
No. Because our Military has fought for their right to be thoughtless, narcississtic, self-aggrandizing idiots under our Constitutional protections.
So Manhart is pilloried for trying to stop this literal evisceration of the Flag? I don’t – won’t – get it.
What ices ME worst is that the punks at Valdosta were allowed to desecrate the American Flag, but Manhart’s attempted defense of it mattered not one whit. (IMO) at MOST, she could/should have received a warning and escorted off the campus – NOT arrested and treated better than those scumbag ‘college kids’ who started yelling all sorts of completely unrelated BS (the usual bile you hear at a protest when the muckrakers are hard at work…foul name-calling is just the beginning). So why does this make Manhart the baddie? Did we treat Welch or anyone else who’s done similar that way? Why is Manhart wrong for exercising HER rights under the First Amendment and in so doing attempt to prevent the desecration of the flag just to pi** people off? Again, if you read reports of what some of the students called Manhart, their comments were light-years off the target of the demonstration, besides being completely pointless, vapid, vile and inordinately provocative!
Manhart took precautions regarding the flag used before she even participated in the shoot. It’s still not what I’d have done, but (again IMO) it would’ve been ‘fine’ if the Stars And Stripes hadn’t touched the ground.
That’s it. That’s your difference: “Touching the ground” versus being trod on, torn, defaced and completely disrespected in every conceivable way, shape form or fashion. Instead of acting like passionate, educated young adults (and I use that noun lightly here), they choose to act like the uncaring, unfeeling, thoughtless punks they’ve chosen to be.
And that’s sad in more ways than I can count. Especially since, you see, I always was the kid in the Journalism Club / newspaper while my father served in the USAF. I was the one who entered the USAF after high school in order to grow up and attempt to become a valuable member of society. I didn’t even choose to GO to college until I’d been out of the USAF for several years – and even then, though I attended under Vocational Rehabilitation – I spent every minute I was in school, um, LEARNING. I also worked full-time and made my own share of mistakes during that time; protesting and outright trying to piss people off not only wasn’t in my agenda, it was – is – and usually will be – pointless.
(By the way, I choose not to place my full name to this for one reason – so that I don’t lower myself to the level of those same provocateurs. I’m not important enough in the scheme of life to assume that in signing my name, I give validity to my thoughts; their validity lies in the experience that allowed me to put them here. I made my point, and now I’m done. Why don’t you who spit on and walk over our flag just be done with it, too?)
CMK
April 27, 2015
Y’know, as a 14-year USAF Vet (DV) and the proud son of a retired USAF Msgt, I think people are being WAAAY to selective in what they want to hear. There was a heck of a ruckus back in the ’60s when legends such as Raquel Welch ‘wore’ the flag (and yes, it touched the ground), but despite the arguably less-permissive environment then, Welch got one heck of a lot less vitriol than Manhart has. (Some disclosure here: I was also a journalist after I left the AF… More disclosure: besides being a journalist *post-service* and a USAF Staff Sergeant – as was Manhart- and I went to college to become a journalist, so I got to see ALL sides of this kind of an argument.)
During my service (1977-1990), if anyone had done what Manhart had while serving as an MTI, I’d have been both shocked and mystified…that she’d do something to potentially discredit and lessen the value of the MTI and what they do for new Airmen – or Instructors for other branches of the military, for that matter. It still isn’t ‘conducive to good military order and discipline’. Not ever; but THAT’s only in the context that she was part of a special cadre within the military: the first exposure to the ‘military life’ and one of those entrusted to train and imbue their charges with what it takes to honorably and effectively serve this Country. If I’d been her commander, maybe I’d have gone with taking her out of the MTI cadre and returning her to her former duties, with a Letter of Counseling in her personnel file that would likely have torpedoed her career from that point anyhow; I don’t believe I’d have professionally disemboweled her. But I’m getting off-topic.
The point is, she paid WAY more than the price she should’ve for her lack of judgement regarding posing in Playboy. After that, she chose to honor her service by wearing the flag in a literal fashion. I see no difference in that and the ‘Stars & Stripes’ clothing sold and worn all over…it STILL depicts the Flag of Our Nation. She dishonored her job and possibly her branch of service, but in comparison with what’s going on now, that’s not worth the ink it takes to write about it. (Or the electrons…) Michelle Manhart did NOT desecrate our national flag. She attempted to treat it with a different respect than many others, but no worse than most do. So how does her trying to prevent our flag from being literally trod on (etc, etc, ad nauseum) by some agents provocateurs who just want to piss people off by desecrating the flag?
Their message could’ve been made louder, clearer and in other ways not offensive in the least. They instead chose to stoop to the level of the idiotic, thoughtless, callous and disrespectful that have ramped up emotions needlessly in Missouri, California, and all across the U.S. Hell, even the people who are peacefully protesting in those places will tell you that there are provocateurs in their midst doing their best to enflame the situation. But why? Because they’re immature and want to piss people off? Because they want to fight?
No. Because our Military has fought for their right to be thoughtless, narcississtic, self-aggrandizing idiots under our Constitutional protections.
So Manhart is pilloried for trying to stop this literal evisceration of the Flag? I don’t – won’t – get it.
What ices ME worst is that the punks at Valdosta were allowed to desecrate the American Flag, but Manhart’s attempted defense of it mattered not one whit. (IMO) at MOST, she could/should have received a warning and escorted off the campus – NOT arrested and treated better than those scumbag ‘college kids’ who started yelling all sorts of completely unrelated BS (the usual bile you hear at a protest when the muckrakers are hard at work…foul name-calling is just the beginning). So why does this make Manhart the baddie? Did we treat Welch or anyone else who’s done similar that way? Why is Manhart wrong for exercising HER rights under the First Amendment and in so doing attempt to prevent the desecration of the flag just to pi** people off? Again, if you read reports of what some of the students called Manhart, their comments were light-years off the target of the demonstration, besides being completely pointless, vapid, vile and inordinately provocative!
Manhart took precautions regarding the flag used before she even participated in the shoot. It’s still not what I’d have done, but (again IMO) it would’ve been ‘fine’ if the Stars And Stripes hadn’t touched the ground.
That’s it. That’s your difference: “Touching the ground” versus being trod on, torn, defaced and completely disrespected in every conceivable way, shape form or fashion. Instead of acting like passionate, educated young adults (and I use that noun lightly here), they choose to act like the uncaring, unfeeling, thoughtless punks they’ve chosen to be.
And that’s sad in more ways than I can count. Especially since, you see, I always was the kid in the Journalism Club / newspaper while my father served in the USAF. I was the one who entered the USAF after high school in order to grow up and attempt to become a valuable member of society. I didn’t even choose to GO to college until I’d been out of the USAF for several years – and even then, though I attended under Vocational Rehabilitation – I spent every minute I was in school, um, LEARNING. I also worked full-time and made my own share of mistakes during that time; protesting and outright trying to piss people off not only wasn’t in my agenda, it was – is – and usually will be – pointless.
(By the way, I choose not to place my full name to this for one reason – so that I don’t lower myself to the level of those same provocateurs. I’m not important enough in the scheme of life to assume that in signing my name, I give validity to my thoughts; their validity lies in the experience that allowed me to put them here. I made my point, and now I’m done. Why don’t you who spit on and walk over our flag just be done with it, too?)
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